Capitalism is a complete and utter failure – the principality of it I dislike, the share fact that the strong should survive and the weak die is a principle I do not share nor advocate.
The system is unfair and can lead to greed and selfish attitudes similar to what we have seen on Wall Street in the USA and similarly in the UK.
What is strange is that Capitalism in its pure form advocates and supports greed at the expense of the poor masses. This is true – we see it in the unfair trading rules of the WTO that prevent poor farmers from competing.
We also see it within financial institutions of the IMF AND World Bank who would provide loans to Poor African nations at rate and life cycles term beyond the presidencies of those that originally signed these agreements, ensuring that those nations stay and rot in abject poverty.
So how come is it that Bush is now prepared to rescue Capitalism from collapse, this goes against what capitalism is all about – surely week intuitions should role over and die and stronger ones take their places.
700 Billion $ is a lot of money that could irradiate poverty on the African Continent - this money should be siphoned to support Africa and save lives without delay.
The system is unfair and can lead to greed and selfish attitudes similar to what we have seen on Wall Street in the USA and similarly in the UK.
What is strange is that Capitalism in its pure form advocates and supports greed at the expense of the poor masses. This is true – we see it in the unfair trading rules of the WTO that prevent poor farmers from competing.
We also see it within financial institutions of the IMF AND World Bank who would provide loans to Poor African nations at rate and life cycles term beyond the presidencies of those that originally signed these agreements, ensuring that those nations stay and rot in abject poverty.
So how come is it that Bush is now prepared to rescue Capitalism from collapse, this goes against what capitalism is all about – surely week intuitions should role over and die and stronger ones take their places.
700 Billion $ is a lot of money that could irradiate poverty on the African Continent - this money should be siphoned to support Africa and save lives without delay.
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48 comments:
This has been a recurring issue but not everyone is willing to talk about it. Perhaps it is a monster question with evidently unfathomable proportions.
This is not true. In America mortgage lending got out of hand because government sponsored agencies were forced via congress to lend more than they should have to lower income groups in order to satisfy lofty goals of "home ownership", if capitalism has run its course then such risky loans would not have been issued.
your argueing against social/economic darwinsism, not capitalism,
you got the two confused,
taken 700 billion and giving it to Africa would solve nothing,
it would go into the hands of the warlords who would use it to buy nice cars and yahts
the same way its always been.
Bud M/24NORTON, MASSACHUSETTS, US
Socialism in a complete failure.
The cause of the mortgage failure in America is socialism
Barney Frank led the charge to make sure every afrikan and other minorities living in America could own his own home even in circumstances where he would never qualify for a loan and has never shown the ability to make payments. The US government even Pres. Bush went along with this scheme to make people with no credit homeowners. They even developed ways for people to buy homes with no down payments.
It was assumed the government would back all the FHA loans and other supposed government backed loans. And they did in a way. Fanny May and Freddy Mac bought the loans, from the lending banks and resold them to investors on the world market. The unworthy home owners did not make their payments on their loans. And this is what caused the scare. Now our socialist government is buying up all these bad loans so they can cover up the corruption in Washington and continue their socialist expansion.
This is what is happening. And what you think proves capitalism won't work actually proves that socialism won't work in any form. It also disproves your second theory, giving afrikans money is not what they need and will never help.
Grantt M/38 Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
If capitalism is the problem one then wonders why Europe is in worse shape than the United States.
JohnGalt M/25 Portland, Oregon, US
How is europe in worse shape? Our economies are more manufacturing/agricultural based and not service based like the US.
dragoner M/41 San Francisco, California, US
Stop spinning, you'll only make yourself dizzy.
I find this laughable that you are wanting to blame this on socialism. The reason people were forced by easy mortgages and loans to buy their houses is one of the foundations of free market capitalism, ie to have everything privately owned. Too many houses were built and house values were higher than inflation and wages, a situation that would always end in disaster. Now that this house of cards has come to it's only possible conclusion, you want to blame it on Socialism? Socialists have been arguing against this for years and predicted this outcome.
Socialism is not bailing out bankers so they can keep their millions. That is the desperate measures of a government propping up an unworkable system.
Swim fish! Swim! M/36 Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Don't try to explain Capitalism to people when the only reading you have ever done is Karl Marx.
The foundation of Capitalism is the Free Market. Only when you subvert the Free Market do you get failure. The Free Market always works. The Free Market would have worked if the Federal Government would have stayed out of the Housing Market and the Free Market would work today if government would quit bailing out the failing companies.
I never said the Government is using the bailout to help Capitalist millionaires, I said the bailout is to hide the corruption and failure of Socialist policies in Washington, the millionaires that will benefit from this are not Capitalists. They are the scum who can not produce anything yet have learned how to become rich off of lobbying Congress for our tax dollars.
Grantt M/38 Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
If you had read Marx you would have known that he predicted this.
I just find it laughable that you've made this leap to socialist policies in Washington. Is Socialism just a boogy word in the US that it makes you feel better to explain the mess away on this rather than face up to the reality that the system that you have lauded for so long is finally going down the pan as it always would have done.
Is the earth flat too?
Swim fish! Swim! M/36 Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Americans...
Must be very hard to swallow
to Capitalize the profits and Socialize the losses
Ramon M/30 SR
Banks in Europe make up a larger portion of GDP than do banks in the United States. That means failures in Europe hurt the economy far worse than in the United States. Also your currency is valued too high which hurts your exports. Europe can either rise to the occasion as a group or they can all drown as individuals.
JohnGalt M/25Portland, Oregon, US
Our exports are strongly branded. Portion of GDP does not denote value.
dragoner M/4 1San Francisco, California, US
You are rather desperate and clutching at straws.
Enjoy the recession and the end of rampant free market capitalism.
Swim fish! Swim! M/36 Glasgow, Scotland, UK
I am always amazed at the hatred the Communist hold for Capitalists.
Personally I don't dislike the Communists I support their right to live the way they would like. Whether they exist in Venezuela, Russia or China I support their decision. But I will not accept Communism in America, they cannot have this country. Of course the Communists don't desire peace do they?
Since the left is incapable of defining their stances for fear that we will see them for what they are, I want to take this opportunity to give a couple of definitions.
Comminism: a society where each peasant shares the product of his labor evenly. The government officials are the elite slavemasters.
Socialism: A society where Communists live off the work of the Capitalists.
Both of these suck for those of us with a brain.
Why don't they get that?
Grantt M/38 Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
You forgot the Capitalist who live off the work of the peasant.
The Tax the poor type.
The cough*700*cough*Billions*cough*Bail*cough*out*cough
But as for a perfect nation
Both are needed to keep balance between the two or many other groups.
Ramon M/30 SR
Drug use reaches an all time high in the US as people hallucinate unrealistic scenarios.
dragoner M/41 San Francisco, California, US
care to explain why these people are online debating about politics?
Ramon M/30 SR
Socialism is the way to go.
Andy{Barack teh vote} M/ <---- that way, Connecticut, US
It's no wonder the American economy failed, I don't think any of them have a grasp of economics.
dragoner M/41 San Francisco, California, US
Capitalism is working fine, people just never knew it never worked for them.
Theres a reason why the super rich are never affected by depressions
Mazk M/18 Eye of the Storm, Connecticut, US
Fired up all those printers..
There's going to be trillions and trillions of money
going to be printed
Ramon M/30 SR
So that is the solution, everyone should become the super rich?
dragoner M/41San Francisco, California, US
I doubt the super rich would want that.
the US capitalism is in a sense, more about enslaveing people to certain economic classes. Credit and Debt make it very easy.
The people trap themselve essentially in a market made of credit which can be loweredi nto a depression and bam, they get knocked down a few economic pegs.
People think they have the ability to become super rich, but cases as such are somewhat rare.
I'm sure moe people would be angry about this if they knew or cared, but since our standard of living is typically considered so high we are like content slaves.
When our standard of living drops, we tend to get...edgy.
Mazk M/18 Eye of the Storm, Connecticut, US
Saying the system works for them and then saying it turns them into slaves is a bit dumb. Working for someone to turn them into slaves? Most of the super rich were born that way, like Donald Trump, cases like Bill Gates, where he started out as anything but poor, are very very rare, and are luck mostly; being the right person, at the right time, in the right place.
dragoner M/41 San Francisco, California, US
perhaps Im speaking too crypticly, when i mean the system works, I mean its purpose has always been to establish and maintain a new aristocratic society in which moving up is rare at best.
Mazk M/18 Eye of the Storm, Connecticut, US
Feels like the current situation and we're still looseing, least, theres peace in our streets aside from the rampent crimes, and our so called demacracy seems more like a false promise every day.
Mazk M/18 Eye of the Storm, Connecticut, US
An old goverment that has gone from a republic for the people to a self serving profit hungering market.
The greed is so strong its now eating away US citizens, not just forign nations now.
Mazk M/18 Eye of the Storm, Connecticut, US
In the USA, giving taxpayer money to crooks is socialism.
Bush s a fiscal socialist. Don't be alarmed, it is what it is.
Alfred B...With no regard for human life! M/29 SJC-Central Ghetto/La Porte, Texas, US
Corruption will destroy any social system.
Super Hater M/43 You are crap......NO HATE, México, MX
When one hears such sounds, what can one say but "Salieri".
Der Gregor- - New Oligarch. , JA M/99 NEW YORK, New York, US
Watch Dogs will destroy any corruption
Jeff M/39 Florida, US
What is it with all this socialist > capitalism rhetoric on these boards? Where were you people when socialism was proven a failure twenty years ago? I'm sorry, did the Soviet Union not collapse? Has China not made trillions off of their designated capitalist zones? What world have you been living in where you've completely missed the convergence of economic systems in the last century? Free market capitalism is to blame for the U.S credit crunch? The reason banks were loaning to people who couldn't afford homes in the first place was because of government regulation during the Clinton Administration. This is not free market capitalism. I also find it ironic that many people seem to think that this problem is contained to America. Out of all the countries that are on their knees right now, America is fairing pretty well among them.
And to the OP, you want the United States to send money to Africa? What are you out of your mind? Every country in the western world has been sending billions in financial aid to Africa for five decades. They only spend that money on equipment to prolong their petty ethnic wars. Militias rob the food packages of charitable organizations and use them to hold their own people hostage while their politicians rob educational funds to pay for their smuggling cartels. The truth is hard and cold. Africa must be forgotten and left to their own devices. We can do nothing to help them if they do not want to help themselves.
nukethecross M/23 Berlin, DE
Capitalism didn't failed
and neither is Socialism
maybe democracy..
since they let stupid people vote for the party who had the biggest propaganda machine
Ramon M/30 SR
Capitalism provides the most productive way to generate wealth.
But it needs to be regulated for all types of stuff. (Safety, Environment, Fraud...)
And is not the best at spreading the wealth around. This is where governments come in. The amount on socialisms should be decided by the people.
Robert M/50 Quebec, CA
I thought Capitalism was a Religion.....one that worships money and power.
mysoma F/104 Alberta, CA
I'll be brief because it's late here:
Soviet Union and China weren't socialist states.
Why did that regulation come in the US in the first place? To increase business and profits of banks, lenders and the building industry whilst denying social housing.
America's stocks are crashing every day, 1000s have already lost their pensions with many more to go. Secondly, wait til the start of November when the 3rd quarterly growth figures come out showing a drastic loss in consumer spending. Wait til 6 months, a year from now and repeat that when you will have witnessed thousands of jobs lost.
Giving money to 3rd world countries in the form of world bank loans with high interest does not constitute financial aid. Perhaps if the world bank did not put conditions on these loans such as privatising natural resources then you wouldn't have food packages being robbed, etc.
You last sentence is a bit moronic, African nations have been consistently stopped from helping themselves for decades.
You do know Africa isn't a country? Just thought i would ask because your post doesn't make that distinction!
Swim fish! Swim! M/3 6Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Capitalism gave you the computer you're typing on and the internet to pass your muddled thoughts all over the world. There's a very good reason why these things were not invented in the Soviet Union, China, or Cuba: those economic systems suck.
Voice in the Wilderness M/33 NEW YORK, New York, US
Pure capitalism has its weaknesses. The best scenario is dominant capitalism with socialist safety nets.
Indonesia Putih M/29 Jakarta, Java, ID
Barring Germany, manufacturing sectors in Europe are not any larger than America's :-/
In any event, all of your major economies are in a recession already. America is not. Europe has now had 33 bank collapses vs America's 19. Most European nations have higher debt ratios. European stock crashes were larger than America's and its recoveries slightly lower (meaning we dropped less and climbed back up more).
So.... how is America's economy in worse shape than Europes?
America's more capitalist and less socialist than Europe, yet, we are weathering the crisis far better, despite it originating here.
... the UK, Germany, ect. are already in recessions.
America will post positive 3rd quarter growth. Both manufacturing and service sectors expanded. Exports did contract one month but the other 2 months did quite well.
4th quarter will likely contract but considering 4th quarter last year was also a contraction and it's relative to the contracted quarter, there's a shot at us even posting postive growth for the 4th and 1st quarters.
Moscow is the most expensive city in the world for expats to live in. It is NOT the richest city or even close to it. That would most likely be New York or Japan, possibly London but I doubt that as well.
Indonesia Putih M/29 Jakarta, Java, ID
how is america's economy strong when it has a national debt of over $10trillion and is increasing at $3billion a day
"October 9, 2008, 11:18 am
Sign of the Times: National Debt Clock Runs Out of Digits
The clock has run out on the national debt.
The National Debt Clock. (Associated Press)
The national debt clock, the unofficial tracker of the federal deficit maintained by the Durst Organization in New York, has reached its limits. Last month, as the national debt exceeded $10 trillion for the first time, the clock ran out of digits to record the number." wall street journal.
Spaceman M/31 metropolis, Midlands, UK
They always get things half backwards. They wanna nationalize the banks and leave the fed private whereas since it's the treasury that mints money the fed should be nationalized.
The way they want it only makes the gov't the peon to the fed.
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
- John Kenneth Galbraith
The REAL insane characteristic of our time is more universal: that money has become the measure of all things, and that we are pressured to conform to a lofty ideal of individualism that, in practice, is counter-intuitive and socially disintegrating.
Thunder M/41 Etters, Pennsylvania, US
Our debt is a tad over 10 trillion now, but our GDP is over 14 trillion. So we are now 5/7 of our GDP in debt. That is pretty crappy, I mean that puts us on par with Germany and France... wait, they both jumped more than we did... so did the UK (although the UK is probably below us still in debt to GDP ratio but the figures aren't out yet)... it is also still under half of Japans debt to GDP ratio...
The fed is not private really, it's pretty much a public bank that's sold to private. The decisions are ultimately in the governments hands. The leadership is picked by the government. It can't creat money with out permission from the US government. One of hte few things they can really do of any real significance with out congressional approval is interest rates and if they fuck that up, those in charge will be canned so ultimately even that has to be approved by congress (after the fact).
But yeah, what ever, keep going with your generic anti-establishment crap.
Indonesia Putih M/29 Jakarta, Java, ID
We will most likely see the fall of capitalism in our lifetime and what a sweet sight that'll be. At leasts our children's children won't have to be implicit slaves under wage-labor.
14 October 2008 14:47 Reply
Kazi M/63LAUREL, Maryland, US
You want your children to be poor?
14 October 2008 17:57 Reply
Indonesia Putih M/29 Jakarta, Java, ID
I wonder at the hypocracy of US President George Bush can find 700billion and yet cannot find the estimated 7billion it would take to provide a home, running water and basic nutrition for the world poorest people. 700 billion so the rich can stay rich at the expense of the poor. Capitalism is in crisis and I fuly expect the 700 billion to be the first installment in feeding these rapacious venture capitalist and greedy financial institutions.
Lee Jasper
haha better to make it complete;y public
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
- John Kenneth Galbraith
The REAL insane characteristic of our time is more universal: that money has become the measure of all things, and that we are pressured to conform to a lofty ideal of individualism that, in practice, is counter-intuitive and socially disintegrating.
Thunder M/41 Etters, Pennsylvania, US
I do not subcribe to that insinuation, because it is a personal statement which you are entitle to as your opinion. My bro. the world is run on the premises of capitalism period. We may not like it, but that would not make any difference to methods applied by capitalists in getting what they want from who and where ever. We have all the ingredients... Read More in our God given resources in Africa to be economically free and independent from the shackles of the shylocks of today. But what have we done with it? Give it away at the expense of povertyand decay in our system. We traded our diamonds for marbles without value and our silver and gold for education. But did we actually achieve anything with our education? What legacy have we left behind if any at all?
WE were thought that LEARNING IS BETTER THAN SILVER AND GOLD!!!! Which is the most profitable and powerful today - LEARNING OR SILVER AND GOLD? I will leave it for you and others to give an honest answer. It is worth debating in another topic.
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